Jul
03
2012
Hello all, I’ve just put the finishing touches on my Cheat Sheet Pack and am ready to get back to blogging! I’m going to try for one or two articles a week for a while. Today, I bring you an article about “You” words in Japanese, to complement my previous “I” words article.
Saying “you” in Japanese is much trickier business than in English. In English, we have just the one word, and we use it all the time. Japanese has a much broader vocabulary, but also a strong tendency to avoid using it.
Rule Number 1: Don’t say Anata (too much)
The first rule of saying “you” in Japanese is you don’t say “you” in Japanese! (Fight Club joke abbreviated). Well, that’s an exaggeration, but it’s true that Japanese people more often than not will omit the “you” information from their sentences. Similar to omitting “I”, this information is mostly derived from the context or other grammar clues.
So in English, we might say “Are you going to the bank today?”, but the literal equivalent in Japanese: あなたは今日銀行に行きますか (anata wa kyou ginkou ni ikimasu ka?) sounds very robotic and unnatural. The most common place where Japanese people actually use anata is when they don’t know anything about the person they’re talking to. It is also the word used when not talking to a specific person (for example, saying “you” in TV commercials).
So why do textbooks use the word anata so often? For the most part, this is just so that learners can understand the sentence better. Since the information would be there in English, beginners automatically expect it in Japanese, and get confused if it’s not there. Think of it as a training wheel.
Rule Number 2: Use suffixes first
When Japanese DO explicitly state “you” information in their sentences, it’s proper to use the person’s (family) name and attach a suffix. You’re probably already familiar with ～さん (san), which is a safe fall-back suffix for learners. There are others too, however. Most commonly…
- ～様 （sama）: a very polite version of さん
- ～君 （kun）: a suffix used toward men of inferior status/position
- ～ちゃん （chan）: a suffix indicating a high degree of familiarity and/or affection
And you may also have heard:
- ～殿 （dono）: an older-sounding suffix which is usually attached to peoples’ titles (not their names).
- ～氏 （shi）: this suffix (which you’re most likely to see after the names of artists) is primarily for 3rd person references, rather than for the person you’re addressing.
- ～卿 （きょう）: the “Lord” suffix. I think the only place I’ve ever heard it is in Japanese Star Wars, where Darth Vader is addressed as: ベイダー卿
(Note: I say “usually” and “primarily” because there’s a bit of gray area here, especially if you read manga and the like)
In official-like situations, it’s commonplace to use a person’s title as a suffix after their name. Hence: オバマ大統領 (= obama daitouryou: Obama President).
As long as it’s clear who you’re referring to, you can even drop the name entirely and just go with the title. People in high organizational positions (for example: 社長 （shachou： CEO） or 部長 （buchou：department chief） are particularly susceptible to being addressed by their titles alone. 先生 （sensei） or “teacher” is the same way, but be aware that this title is very often also bestowed upon non-teachers as a way to express respect for someone’s professional expertise (common with lawyers, doctors, business consultants).
Conversely, calling someone by just their name without any title/suffix is referred to as yobisute (呼び捨て) in Japanese and you should not do it unless you’re on very familiar terms, and even then it’s extremely rare to yobisute your superiors.
Note that the name+suffix/title method of referring to people is okay both for directly addressing someone and making 3rd person references.
Rule Number 3: “you” words are dangerous
Sorry to keep you all waiting, now that I’ve laid the necessary groundwork I’ll give you the cool words. It’s important to remember that in Japanese, to politely address someone you should use their name with a suffix or their title. The broad catch-all “you” words range mostly between overtly familiar and offensive, and require caution when used.
Informal “you”:
- 君 （kimi）: used by men toward people of lower status. Typically not rude. (not inherently formal/informal, but makes the status hierarchy explicit, and is therefore better suited to formal situations)
- お前 （omae）: used in very informal situations or toward people of lower status. This word feels very “blunt” and can easily come off as rude.
- あんた （anta）： a shortened version of anata, highly informal and generally rude or admonishing in nature.
Derogatory “you”:
- kisama – きさま （貴様)
- temee – てめえ （手前）
- onore – 己
These three words all indicate anger and/or disapproval of whoever you’re talking to. Needless to say, don’t use them unless you’re trying to pick a fight.
Interestingly, as some of you might be able to discern from the kanji, kisama was actually a term of respect in old Japan.
A couple more:
- お主 （onushi）: This is an old “you” word, not impolite but never used toward superiors.
- お宅 （otaku） : Somewhat older “you” expression, but still used sometimes. This word is respectful in nature and shouldn’t ruffle many feathers. Note that this word not the same as that which refers to anime-loving オタク.
Final notes
I should mention that anata is also used by adult women when speaking to their husbands.
君 (kimi) is commonly employed by boyfriends when talking to their girlfriends, and as such risks giving people the wrong idea. Remember Rule #2 (use suffixes first).
(Note for Advanced Learners:) The notion of anata no (“your ~”) is conveyed by default when adding an お or ご in front of a noun to make it honorific (Keigo). Thus we don’t need to say あなたのお名前 because お名前 is never MY name, it’s always YOUR name. Similarly, we can reword あなたの住所 as ご住所 and あなたの注文 as ご注文.
If you found this post interesting or useful, please check out Nihonshock’s Japanese Cheat Sheet pack! The information in this post is summarized in sections on both the Spoken Japanese sheet (“you” words) and the Keigo sheet (suffixes).
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See AlsoHow To Say "Are You Okay" in Japanese the Native WaySUMIMASEN, a versatile word | Easy Travel Japanese | Easy Japanese 2015 | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPANEasy Japanese 2015 - Vocabulary List & Quiz | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPANONEGAI SHIMASU. Please | Easy Travel Japanese | Easy Japanese 2015 | NHK WORLD RADIO JAPAN[…] Đây là bài viết dịch từ trang web Nihonshock.com mà mình tìm được. Chủ đề về việc cách xưng hô cũng như cách ám chỉ đối phương trong khi nói chuyện với người Nhật không còn mới. Mình không dám chắc tất cả đều chính xác nên nếu các bạn muốn đọc bản gốc hãy đọc tại link sau nha ^^ http://nihonshock.com/2012/07/saying-you-in-japanese/ […]
Comments
Great post! This is a great example of an area where especially early on, Japanese scholars may be tempted to try and translate literally what they want to say from English (or other language) into Japanese and come off sounding weird or rude. Even after getting used to how (in)frequently “you” is used in Japanese, learning all of the “you” words and how/when they are used is a challenge.
by: Blue Shoe, Jul 3rd at 10:43 am
Lord Voldemort in Japanese is ヴォルデモート卿 as another example of 卿.(I know because I’ll sometimes attach 卿 in self-reference as a joke…usually only geeks who know about Darth Vader (or even know what 卿 after a name means, which a lot of people don’t seem to) get it :p
Also, I think あんた is a rather interesting word because it’s either used by someone of a higher position to a lower one (like a teacher to his or her students or a parent to their kids) or by women to men (if they’re close, like the same in grade) and it does have a sort of talking-down nuance, much like the men to women kimi. (You say kimi isn’t rude but I disagree when it’s used between men and women, as it implies that men are of a higher status, although most Japanese don’t feel this way as they’re so used to it.) Anta also would sound very strange from one guy to the next if they’re best friends, where as omae would be standard.
by: Xander, Jul 3rd at 12:39 pm
Thanks for the comments!
The reason I say きみ isn’t rude is that it’s often used within businesses or other organized groups, where superiors can use it to refer to their subordinates. In this situation, no offense is meant and none is taken. It could also be used non-offensively by an army Lieutenant talking to a private. お前 would be much harder to use in these kind of situations, because it’s poorly suited to formal contexts.
And note that I wrote highly informal situations “OR” toward those of lower status for お前. It definitely is common among groups of men whose status is comparable or a non-issue.
A lot of times, using blunt/crude Japanese when talking to someone is a sign of familiarity. Kind of like “We know each other well enough that we don’t need to worry about being polite.”
by: Lloyd Vincent, Jul 4th at 12:27 am
I first noticed a link at the YesJapan.com forum, but then I didn’t think much of it yet. Thenk I stumbled upon it while searching the net and decided to check it out.
I was amased by the sheer amount of work you put in all of this. Such detailed information only shows your love and respect for a language. I will certainly return often to check up on the language and study section of your website is an excellent source of information for learners such as myself.
オレンテス
by: オレンテス, Jul 4th at 6:20 am
It is becoming more and more common and normal for women to use “kimi” with men. For example among younger couples. In Japanese pop songs you will hear female singers use it quite often as well. If one was to be addressed as “anta” by their partner that would be a sign to tread carefully IMHO.
by: sigma1, Jul 4th at 6:23 pm
Ah, sorry, I meant to say that I agree that 君 isn’t seen as rude by the Japanese, but as a non-Japanese expat I see it as rude because it’s a word specifically used from a person of higher status to lower status, primarily teachers to students, superiors to their subordinates (in both the office and the military), adults to kids, and men to women. I’m fine with 敬語 and 尊敬後 because we use similar things in English (just not to the extent that the Japanese do) and i think it’s a good thing to treat someone you respect in a nicer manner to show that you respect them. (Personally though I despise the archaic social hierarchy system, and I believe that respect is something to be earned, not given based on how strong your 加齢臭 is.)
To me I don’t see any reason why someone of a “higher status” can’t be polite back to someone of a “lower status”. 君 is unique from お前 in that I can’t think of any situation where it can be used normally between two people of equal status. It is exclusively a word used from people of a higher status to someone of a lower status. (Although as sigma1 pointed out, some girls do like to use it with guys, although in my experience that’s always been when they’re just playing around with their classmates, as they’ll also use お前 and refer to themselves as 俺.) I’ve never heard two male friends referring to each other as 君; お前 would instead be proper, with more of a playful “Psh, c’mon dude!” / “Aww you f*cker!” vibe. In that sense, I believe お前 can be considered a “more equal” word than 君, because it can be used equally between two people. (Of course 目上 often use it towards 目下 when they’re upset, and in that case it would be ruder than 君 and specifically indicate indignation, but even still I’d prefer that over 君 because I’d rather have someone talk down to me because they’re upset at something that I did, rather than because they think they are of a higher social status than me.)
by: Xander, Jul 4th at 9:59 pm
That’s a difficult subject, but that’s what makes it interesting.
Actually I have used “anata” with a female colleague the first day I came to Japan, then it took a few days and asking my teacher to understand why everybody was laughing at me. After this I never used any word for “you” again ^^
And also I always stick to “san” instead of using any other suffix.I don’t feel a need to work this out though, as I don’t think and don’t want to imply that anybody is of lower status than I and doesn’t deserve respect, even if that’s how things are in Japan.
But with friends, using first names without suffix always feels natural, even when meeting for the first time as long as it’s in a “let’s be friends” context.
At least I never met anyone showing any discomfort at it, and even if some can be surprised at first, many will call me so on their own initiative.by: Sjamon, Jul 6th at 4:55 pm
@オレンテス: Thanks! I appreciate the compliments and hope to continue writing articles that are useful and entertaining.
@Xander: you make a good point. I updated the wording in the article to make it a little clearer how and why kimi is a “dangerous” word.
@Sigma1: music is an artistic realm where women in particular get much more flexibility with I/you words. Just be careful not to make assumptions because things are different in everyday speech.
Similarly, some girls in anime/manga say “boku” for I, but I’ve never heard a real girl say that.
@Sjamon: foreigners can get away with 呼び捨て because we aren’t expected to jump through all the politeness hoops that Japanese natives are.
Japanese use さん obsessively, even among close friends. Hell, even my girlfriend was さんing me for a while after we started dating.
by: Lloyd Vincent, Jul 7th at 3:55 am
Correction: Anime-loving Otaku オタク was named after a second person word Otaku お宅. They are the same words.
by: yobin, Jul 12th at 1:05 am
They’re derived from the same word, but they’re totally different. Anime otaku is オタク. Somewhat older 2nd-person term is お宅. It’s best to think of them as different words.
by: Lloyd Vincent, Jul 19th at 6:41 am
Wow, the whole ‘you’ topic is a lot broader than I thought, even though I’d been advised against using あなた, わたし etc.; seems like Japanese is turning to be more complex than I thought. The whole お~ prefix blew me away as well.
by: Orison, Oct 25th at 10:07 am
kisama was actually a term of respect in old Japan.
There are 2 ways to use kisama:
When you talk to someone of equal status or lower status
When you call someone downby: kunji, Dec 12th at 8:04 am
I’m confused. Do women in Japan prefer saying “KIMI” as in “YOU” when they are talking to a man? I’m not good at Japanese.
by: Crazy, Jan 11th at 1:35 pm
Damn, learning Japanese is hard. If I was born as a girl in Japan, then learning Japanese wouldn’t be a problem. If I was a girl, which Japanese word for “YOU” would I say when talking to another person (MALE or FEMALE)? “KIMI”, or “ANATA”?
by: Crazy, Jan 11th at 1:44 pm
Do younger people say “KIMI” to an older person?
by: Crazy, Jan 12th at 2:19 am
“kimi” is a familiar word, not used toward a superior. Therefore, no, you wouldn’t say it toward an older person (under normal circ*mstances).
“anata” is basically safe if you don’t know the name of the person you’re talking to, but if you do, your safest option to use their family name + “san”.
Unless you’re an anime character, you always need to consider who you’re talking to and your relationship to them when choosing what word or name suffix to use.
by: Lloyd Vincent, Jan 15th at 9:45 am
As a 25+year Japanese speaker, I have always been confounded about how to direct questions specifically to people I don’t know — total strangers, like when thrown together on a bus, plane etc. I avoid “anata” like the plague and what I’ve come up with is, while angling a hand in a sort of gesturing way, saying “Kono kata wa ~?” They all seem to get it, but I’m sure it’s wrong on many levels. Still, like I said, I hate anata and I also don’t like leaving the “You” out altogether.
by: nicholas robinson, Sep 17th at 5:48 am
In my experience during my five years in Japan in the early 90s, I personally hardly ever heard “kimi” used by ANYONE to ANYONE except on TV.
I struggle mightily with the “you” issue even today — not whether or not to use “kimi” or “anata,” both words I avoid like the plague, but the conundrum of saying “you” to someone I don’t know — like people you only meet in transition — like someone sitting next to you on a plane. It doesn’t matter what hierarchical status they are — they might be older, or younger, or whatever — but for the duration they’re just a Japanese person on a plane. Just as in English, I would not be inclined to ask their name unless the conversation got, like, REALLY serious, but in English, “you” is never a problem
But in Japanese it’s always a big problem for me as to how to address them when you just can NOT avoid saying “you.” As in maybe asking, “and you, where in Japan do you come from?”
Since I avoid “anata” like the plague, I’m faced with this massive problem. I don’t want to ask their name — that is WAAAY farther than I want to go, say, on a plane ride, but then, what to do?
I know it’s wrong to say (and I’ve been told it’s wrong,) but I fall back on “kono kata wa?” where “kata” is the respectful term for someone no one knows the name of, but it’s kind of my way of getting myself off the hook by not using “anata” yet remaining respectful. So, with a hand gesture indicating that the “kono kata wa” means “and this person” (in front of me whose name I do not know) . . . where does [this person] come from?”
It always seems to work for me. A Japanese person will always tell you it’s okay to use “anata” but Japanese people are quite often the wrst teachers of their own language, and just tell you what you seem to want to hear instead of giving it to you straight.
Any opinions, YOU GUYS? (Omaetachi!)
by: nick robinson, Jan 6th at 9:11 pm
I am curious about -kun you hear it used a lot in Japanese Anime from girls for their guy friends. But when I’ve looked it up, it always says for young/er boys or what you said above about inferiority. So when is it appropriate?
by: Whitney, Mar 18th at 1:08 am
Otaku is in fact derived precisely from this pronoun meaning “Your house” – 宅 is home, and with the お honorific prefix = your house. It is both formal and impersonal. It might seem like a really weird way to address somebody but it is used in the sense of “your house/home/family” – i.e. people can ask about your surrounding family without directly asking how you are, without getting too involved and personal with how “you” are doing.
People apparently noticed those at anime conventions using this pronoun to address each other. Males close to one another would typically use “omae” to address each other, however this is a little too rough for the sort of males who’d be attending a manga/anime convention, nor are would they know each other well enough to use it anyway, so they settled for “otaku” – something used more by housewives to other housewives than males of any sort.
by: Russell, Sep 12th at 7:53 pm
